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My notes are in italics

I was also under the impression the 3T-GTE was 16V, but have never eyed one in the flesh.

Secondly - the 4AGE comes with the T-50 in the AE 86 model cars, so as long as you have the bellhousing (mine has '4A' cast at the top near the back of the head from (poor) memory) you should be OK.

Phil Bradshaw
Palmerston North NZ

The AE 86 RWD shell was sold in NZ (as used imports) as either a Levin (in sprinter 1500cc or GT-V 4AGE) from 83-86 maybe 87. I had an 83 GT-V that I bought as a wreck. 4 wheel discs, vented on front. Same vintage Truenos are available, pop up lights only difference. Both available as 2 door liftback or coupe (kinda 2 door sedan).

Then there was the FWD Levin/Trueno, which had superchaged 4AGE as an option from 87?-90?.

This was folowed in 91 with the AE101 shell, with corollas (3/4/5 door) with 20 valve option, and Levin/Trueno 2 door coupe (radically different body shell, kinda like similar vintage prelude) running 20 valves as option as well.

Best I can figure, this was replaced in may 95 with AE111, but same models available.

Phil Bradshaw
Palmerston North NZ
Leitch Supersprint 20 valve.

(snipped) - Finally, clutch. Chris Hilliard and I have both encountered -problems with slipping the clutch. Mine was gone a few years ago, I -think... We are both at a loss as to where to go... Do you have some input? - Thanks for your time,

Now you're talking. Here's some info:

Centerforce Clutches:

All 2TC and 5 speed 3TC
Centerforce I, CF008515, $173.65
Centerforce II, CF515008, $238.65
Dual Friction, DF515008, $258.65
4 speed 3TC
Centerforce I, CF009501, $228.10
Centerforce II, CF501009, $258.58
Dual Friction, DF501009, $294.38

CFI, CFII, and DF clutches have 30%, 60%, and 90% more holding power than the stock clutch, according to Centerforce. Let me know how I can be of further assistance!

--
Christopher P. Myer
Cyberspace Automotive Performance
www.cyberauto.com

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Looks like i am going to be getting a 4A-GE motor from a 85 mr2 along with all wiring, ecu, etc...everything except bellhousing... (which is already located) I plan on swapping this into my 80 TE-72 chassis and seeing what happens fom there... What work do you think should be done on the block before it goes into the car? 125k miles on it, perhaps check compression and go from there? I plan to turbo later as oppsoed to sooner...( don't have the money right now, so I'll just make good drawings and measure bolt hole placement port size and other things so that later it is easier to design and build a manifold for the turbo)
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Scott- Compression check for sure, also watch for oil and coolant leaks. Remove the oil pan and see if there is a lot of sludge (from bad oil left there for too long). This could mean that oil channels may be plugged up. Not very common on Toyotas, but better safe than sorry. If it's in decent condition leave it as it is and then do it all when adding the turbo, as you will need low-compression forged pistons and all gaskets. When you add the turbo, also replace the rod and main bearings. Stronger rods would be a good idea since you are going to get a pre-87 4A-GE. You will need a special clutch to handle the torque. You will also find at that point that your fuel injection system is inadequate!

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Do you know of anyone who has done this swap? Parts needed that you wouldn't normally think of? -----------------------------------------------------
It is very common to put 4A-GE's in all older Toyotas (usually Corollas). Fuel pump + filter, return fuel line. Adequate radiator. Lots of hoses, clamps etc. Engine mounts. Exhaust system, air filter. Throttle cable. -----------------------------------------------------
I would like to nkow about TVIS and what it does... I have only had 18R's and 3T's, nothing with variable anything really... Is there a noticable power gain with this system? Is it something that I should design the turbo around, or something that I should try to eliminate with forced induction? -----------------------------------------------------
TVIS keeps one inlet port per cylinder closed under 4500rpm, giving increased gas speed and therefore better torque! Definately worth keeping in naturally aspirated for, and probably also when turbocharged (more low end torque -> earlier turbo spool-up!). -----------------------------------------------------
Also, what is the difference between the 'red hat" and blue hat motors (85-86 and 87-89)? -----------------------------------------------------
Mainly bottom end upgrade, later ones larger bearings all around, stronger rods and crank. You may want to ask about the list for more info. I'd really recommend getting a post-87 one!

Matti Kalalahti | Toyota Carina Coupe GT-T TwinCam Turbo '82
k124476@ee.tut.fi | RWD * IRS * LSD * 3T-GTEU * 232hp and moving on up...
A Huge Evergrowing WWW Home Page * http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124476/

T03 comes in many trims, both turbine housing and compressor wheel/housing. These can be changed also later, simply bolt-on.

All post 87 blocks are stronger. SC had also forged pistons.

-- Matti Kalalahti

Centerforce Clutches:
84.12 - 85.06 NA, Centerforce I, CF020523, $263.44
84.12 - 85.06 NA, Dual Friction, DF523020, $323.46
85.07 - 90.00 GT, Centerforce I, CF035542, $308.46
85.07 - 90.00 GT, Dual Friction, DF542035, $354.13

HKS Light Weight Flywheel(10lb 14oz):
7020XX-10017X, $286.16

You'll need to get the date of manufacture on the engine, but I'm guessing that if it came from an 85 MR2, you need the clutch for a 84.12 - 85.06. On the other hand, what gearbox are you using? We really should be looking at that instead of the engine. Let me know what make/year you're using a gear box from and I'll check what's available there.

BTW, yes, these clutches are a little pricey. A stock clutch setup would work adequately if you aren't going to try to pump a lot of HP out of the 4AG. Let me say from experience though that a high performance clutch will make the car faster! I just swapped out the metal clutch on my 323 for a regular composite setup. Man, it felt like I lost 15 hp! I guess you never realize how much those stock clutches slip until you actually do a (nearly) side by side comparison!

Hope this is helpful!

Chris

Steve B.

bagdon@rust.net (h) USFMDDKT@ibmmail.com (w)
http://www.rust.net/~bagdon
Katharine aNd Steve (KNS)
'91 MR2T (daily driver, for sale), '85/'85 MR2 (parts car)

What's the VIN on the engine? Let's see if they match the plates on the body. Maybe they just replaced the head and starter?

VIN: 0718227

The car's VIN (looking at the title right now) is JT2AW15C2F0032039. Sounds like a new engine.

>>That's good. I think I might even have another O2 sensor lying around. The >>car will run without it (rich, and a check engine ECU), but we'll see what >>we can do. >That would be helpful... I have so many things I need to do on it before I >get it to run...

But your almost there!

>>I am *impressed*. But they will be too when the car is running. You should >>keep good notes, and work on a web page! > Good notes for certain, especially if I think about doing it again >(yeah, right!!!). But others may want to do the same and wouldn't it be >nice if they knew what they were getting into before they started doing the >work. I won't let myself admit how deep I am in til I am done, lest I lose >interest and get intimidated by the time/cost.. But it definatley becomes >part of my webpage, or the toy-mods server, whichever... Or both... I >already told Chris Myer that i would write a page on the rolla... Stock car >first, then the modified version... So much to do, so little time! Engine >comes first, as it will be getting very cold soon; Then the write up and the >finishing work.

Sounds like my first comments - get it in, then decide to upgrade. If you try to make the motor best before installation, it will be next year before it gets in!

>>Many, many thanks. It was a pleaure taking the car apart with you. Maybe >>I'll invite you over for a bunch of free parts if you help me with the next >>one! :-) > No problem, I was very happy to help! We shall see... I may just >break down and get a MR2. It would probably be esier than this current >project. Then again, after all this work I would not wish to get rid of the >rolla... Decisions, decisions...

You have a more 'practical' car - 4 seater, hatch, etc. The MR2 is not practical, and is as much of a life-style decision as a career. In the long run, unless the MR2 is your passion, you'll appreciate the Corolla project. And everyone out here really wants to see you finish the conversion!

Steve B.

bagdon@rust.net (h) USFMDDKT@ibmmail.com (w)
http://www.rust.net/~bagdon
Katharine aNd Steve (KNS)
'91 MR2T (daily driver, for sale), '85/'85 MR2 (parts car)

For the fuel set up get a surge tank (swirl pot) made up. Run a lift pump from the tank to the surge tank (most carbie fuel pumps won't keep up so be careful with your pump selection). Run your return line to the surge tank + an overflow line from the surge tank back to the main tank. If you run your return line back to the main tank the lift pump might not be able to keep up so running it to the surge tank is a bit of extra protection. Alternatively, if you have the room, run a large bore gravity feed to the surge tank. This is preferable for two reasons, first - you only need the one pump and two - your return line can now go back to the main tank which helps keep the recirculating fuel cooler. Heating fuel can be a major prob when you are racing and alot of the race set ups i have looked at (running the two pumps) use a fuel cooler in the return line.

Cheers,

Justen Simpson CRC Freshwater Ecology University of Canberra, Australia Simpson@lake.canberra.edu.au

Hi Scott,

Would you believe I can say, been there done that entirely???? I have a '79 T-18 (Corolla Hatch probably) which had a 3TC which was slow and slowly dying. I hada 4AGE (RWD) imported in a half-cut from Japan and installed here.... Not having done it myself, I can only remember some of the details, but the car's parked outside, so if you need any questiions answered, I'll be able to have a look.

I had a T-50 (well still have) just not in the car. As the gearbox came with the engine, they just put the 4AGE's gearbox in. Mine may have fit (and I wish they'd tried now) but I couldn't say.

I assume the engine mounts are the same or very similar, as I didn't need to get an engineer's certificate to get the car licensed... and I'm pretty sure I would have remembered being charged for new engine mounts. I know for sure that they didn't use the cross member out of the donor car, because I still have it (and the brakes, springs etc.) at home.

My fuel tank is the original (inc. welded up holes) from the T-18, but the fuel pump was replaced with an EFI pump. It doesn't surge or run out going hard around corners (but I had fun trying to make it do it :) ), but I again don't know the exact details of the fuel pump. I would ask my (not so friendly mechanic who installed the lot, but we had a bit of a disagreement recently about the quality of his installation which saw him rewire the engine, replace the computer, leads and distributor (8 months out of warranty and free of charge....))

My engine is an 88 with TVIS so it isn't the 100kw version. If you can do most of the work yourself you should be fine, but I didn't have the time or the knowledge at the time. The wiring is the most difficult I've been told, and after seeing the harness in the donor car I can believe it.

You'll probably notice that the 4AGE doesn't have as much torque low down as the 3TC but it has a lot more grunt from 4500 to wherever than the 3TC ever had.... Also the sump in the 4AGE is lower than the 3TC (at least in my car) so the plate I have underneath my engine no longer protects the sump, so watch out for any high speed bumps.

What rear end are you using, do you have discs at the front & back, and what else have you done to it? I'm interested in hearing about any of your other modifications....

Good luck, and let me know how it goes.... I'm sure you'll enjoy the difference...

James... "James O'Brien"

The engine swap was definitely worth it. In my car it gets to 100 kmh about 4-6 seconds quicker depending on how well I get it off the line. My old engine used to take about 15 seconds to get there but I've done a couple in 9s.

Mileage with the 4A is heaps better and I drive it a lot harder. I'm into rally driving (although not with a proper car yet) and I do a bit of practicing on closed dirt roads and drive it much quicker (because the car can go quicker now). I'm not sure about reliability as this engine only had 40000km on it when I got it, and only about 60000k now.... so it isn't really ready for any major work yet...

The best thing about the 3T is that it will pull well from low revs and accelerate strongly to about 4500-5000. The 4AGE pulls better from about 3500-7000 and accelerates well between here.

Hopefully the rear end you suggested will work as I do have rear coil springs, and my diff is the only part of my driveline which wasn't replaced... I forgot to tell you that my tailshaft was replaced because I'd managed to crack mine quite severly in its 180000km lifespan... It was replaced with a one piece tailshaft which might be shorter or longer than the original... so that might need to be replaced.

Pity you're not in Aus. or we could put them side by side before and after and get some results, which would be particularly useful.... oh well.

Good luck...

J. "James O'Brien"

Hey Scott,

> 1. Will any RWD bellhousing mate a 4A-GE motor to a T-50 box? Any >specific models, years to look out for?

Easy! Use 1983-86 AE86 RWD gearbox - over here it is a Corolla/Levin/Trueno/Sprinter (!) coupe or hatchback 2 door - I think you get it as Corolla GT. Anyway, it is for mating 4A-GE to T-50 and (probably any 4A actually) and can be identified by '4A' in a wee circle (about 7mm diameter) on the top of the belhousing between the two large top bell housing to block bolt holes.

actually, the bellhousing has a 4A-G stamped in it on the outer flange near the starter motor

Don't forget to get the two cast iron/steel block to bellhousing braces that bolt on by the oil pan - appartently the rear crank bearings don't like not having these...

> 2. Are the engine mounting points (on the 80 rolla frame) for the 3T >in the same place as the AE-86? IE, can I just use the mounting brackets >form a AE-86?

Dunno - sorry.

> 3. Which is better to do: use an EFI tank/pump setup (from an >AE-86... Will this fit in the TE-72 location?) and run efi pressure lines >the length of the vehicle or make a dual pump setup, one pump from a carby >setup and one from a EFI vehicle?

I just shoehorned the AE86 EFI pump into my custom made tank - and I don't use any swirl pot or anything, and it seems to work fine, altho I always leave about 3 litres of gas in the tank, and my tank is quite small (it is tapered) by the pickup. A lot of people here use inline pumps from 3 litre nissan motors. I use braided line for supply and return, but there is no reason you can't bend up some solid stuff. Definately use a supply and return line back to the tank. I would go with a single inline EFI pump with a high pressure filter on tje outlet - I dunno if it is a good idea to put a suction filter in. Also mount pump as close to tank as possible- they blow real good but ain't too hot at sucking... so place it low too.

As for the oil pan - you could always just bolt it to a piece of steel, chop the pan off, turn it 180 degrees and weld it back on, and just mod the pickup to suit. Depending on the vintage of the block, I would imagine other pans are a straight swap. I bought a brand new pan for mine here from Toyota - $120 NZ - which is about $ 85 US.

All the exhaust manifolds mate up - the AE 86 one will probably do the trick.

Give us a yell if you have any more queries - I have put a complete AE 86 4AGE into my kit car, and also replaced the 4AGE with a 20 valve.

Phil Bradshaw
Leitch Supersprint 20 valve Lotus 7 replica
Palmerston North
NZ

Make sure you have the correct oil pick up for the pan you decide to use.

Steinmetz

Zadok7000@aol.com

Scott:

>T-50 from the 80 rolla... Will this let me use the old 3T flywheel and >clutch? Is that more of an advantage, or not?

Well, keep in mind that the T-50 transmission changed a bit, I think it changed in 1980, so you have the newer one. Therefore, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the clutch from the RWD 4AG Corolla should work for you. I highly recommend getting a second opinion, however.

Centerforce Clutches:
Centerforce I, CF025523, $283.60
Dual Friction, DF523025, $354.13

I hope this is helpful!

Chris

> > Steve... > Any good pointers on the timing belt? I cannot figure out how to > release the tensioning pulley... Is there a write up of this on the web > somewhere?

Need to find you a manual!

You don't release the tension on the pulley (at least that's how memory serves concerning the manual, and at least from my experience). Take your finger tips, and pull on the belt at the cam pulleys. Pull each side 1/16", back and forth, until it comes off. Same way to put it back on - making sure the timing is good between the crank, intake cam and exhaust cam pulleys!!! Install completely on the crank pulley and around the tensioner, then install 1/16" onto each cam pulley (you'll see what I mean when you try it). Then wiggle it on each cam pulley, 1/16" at a time, until the belt is fully installed on the cam pulleys.

Steve B.

>Daryl..
> I noticed that the mounting holes on the mr2 >flywheel and the 3T clutch plat I have are identical. > I want to know if I can put the 3T clutch/pressure >plate assembly onto the mr2 flywheel and have the thing >work, reliably. Is there any advantage, disadvantage to >doing this? (It is more cost effective, but if it works >worse or is going to pose a problem, then I don't want to >do it)

> Thanks!

Scott,
I do not know if they are interchangeable. As much work as involved in replacing the clutch in an MR2 I would install the correct parts.

Good Luck

Daryl

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Daryl Mathews owner of Toyota Service of Pasadena
Pasadena, Texas 77502
Internet address: daryl@cityscope.net
Homepage: http://www.cityscope.net/~daryl/
Click on the Toyota icon for the Toyota Web site list
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